When Kanye grabbed the mic, my stomach turned. The MTV Video Music Awards have a penchant for controversy, but something about what happened at Radio City Music Hall on Sunday night transcended controversy. For the two of you out there who missed it, Kanye West snatched the microphone from Taylor Swift in the middle of her acceptance speech to shout about how Beyonce's "Single Ladies" video should have won. I happen to agree with Kanye's opinion, but how he expressed it was rude, disrespectful and just plain mean.
I think people were shocked with Kanye's actions. What made it so egregious was the way in which this particular snub fits into the tapestry of a trend across America: uncivil discourse. Serena Williams blew a gasket over an out-of-bounds call in a tennis match, Joe Wilson interrupted President Obama's address to Congress by screaming "you lie," and recent town hall meetings have deteriorated into shouting matches.
This trend prompted USA Today to run today's cover story entitled, "What happened to civility?" (Also, see my article for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "Incivility muffles interactive debate.")
So the question is this: Are these events part of a cultural craze in your opinion? Are these examples isolated insanity or part of a troubled trend?
Britt Hester said:
Thank you for bringing this issue up. I was extremely disturbed by the immaturity and lack of respect displayed by the individuals listed here. There is never an instance in which behavior like this is acceptable. To me the most appalling aspect of it all is the number of people who are influenced by each member. Kanye and Serena are adored and celebrated by millions of young people worldwide. Senator Wilson is probably looked up to by his family and those around him. Plus, he represents the voices of many in the state of South Carolina. Actions like this can ruin a reputation, but they can also influence the same behavior in others. My prayer is for the individuals and those who view them in such a respectable manner, that they would learn from the mistakes and use their platform to lift others up, not themselves.
Posted: September 15, 2009
Chris said:
I was one of the two who missed it. I didn't even know MTV was having the awards show...
I do believe this kind of behavior is a part of a troubled trend in our culture...it happens in "the limelight" as well as in private. Kids are not taught respect, honor, integrity, manners and how to be polite anymore...we, as a society, are forgetting (or neglecting) how to be and interact with people.
Posted: September 15, 2009
Bob Allen said:
I'm the other one of the two who missed Kanye's antics. Of course, that perhaps has more to do with my being a pentagenarian and that I'm overseas than anything else. However, after having spent the last 4+ years in the US, I think this is cultural deterioration. We saw it in the Virginia gubernatorial elections and I actually voted opposite of my normal bent because of it. The incivility has gotten progressively worse. I, like Chris, think it's part of a larger trend toward a loss of any sense of restraint -- look at the preponderance of vulgar, obscene, and profane language that is now accepted as a part of everyday speech.
Posted: September 16, 2009
Bob Allen said:
...and what's up with my home state of South Carolina? First our esteemed (cough, cough) governor and his "soul mate"; now Senator Wilson and his rudeness.
Posted: September 16, 2009
Eileen said:
Controversy contrived by the celebrities' PR hacks - and the talking heads take it seriously. We're not missing civility nearly as much as we're missing incredulity.
Posted: September 16, 2009
Blake said:
I think the most interesting development of the new millennium is the near extinction of all trends. Think about it. For the last decade or so what have been the most popular toys for kids at Christmas? Whatever happened to the annual furor over the latest toy craze: Furby, Tickle Me Elmo, Tomagotchi, Pokemon, etc.? Technology (e.g. iPods, cellphones, etc.) doesn't count. Do kids even play with toys anymore? Think about music. Top 40 stations aren't nearly as popular as they were a decade ago due to myspace and instant download. We're seeing a kind of cultural anarchy unlike any previous era in history. People used to be united by whatever the latest fashion and trends were in consumerism, but such trends have disappeared as the Internet has become a tool for people to engage what interests them.
I point all this out because I think the incivility is possibly a symptom hyped up by the media reacting to the traditional trendsetters being stripped of their power to set trends. So the former trendsetters are becoming more uncivil in their diminishing social status that they have no control over.
Posted: September 16, 2009
justin said:
When exactly was the civility golden era? In your op-ed, you pointed out the nature of gun duels in the 19th century. (The same deadly and lawless settling of scores occurs today). We until very recently had overtly racist laws. Until very recently we had much more confrontational and violent clashes between the working class and the wealthy in the labor movement. My point is that I remain unconvinced that things are deteriorating on the civility front, its just a matter of proximity bias, just as every generation seems to believe that kids today are more out of control than the kids in their youth.
Was Serena's harangue qualitatively worse than John McEnroe's famous tirades? Does the outburst of an athelete signify some broader cultural behavioral norm? Was Kanye's boorish behavior any worse than the many ridiculous stunts pulled at music award shows in the 1990s?
Posted: September 16, 2009
Travis Mamone said:
Not sure if it's a cultural thing or not. For Joe Wilson, I think it is part of a political trend. I've heard many of the so-called "tea baggers" say, "Well if your rights were being taken away you'd be angry too." Well, it's true to an extent. I remember that not long ago when Bush was in office I was pretty angry. But then I realized that all the shouting and name-calling wasn't helping; it just made me look foolish. That's not to say that we shouldn't speak up if we disagree with our elected officials. Far from it! But the problem is too many times our emotions overtake our reason, and we can't even talk about it. And if we don't talk about it, nothing gets changed.
As far as Kanye, it was a long time coming. After the success of "Late Registration" (great album, by the way) success went to his head big time. He went from rapping about Jesus to believing that he actually was Jesus. Hopefully what happened at the VMA's was a real wake-up call, or else his career's going to go downhill like Terrence Trent D'arby (who, if I remember correctly, said he was better than the Beatles).
I think Serena was just having a bad day. She's normally very even-tempered. Doesn't make her outburst right, though.
Posted: September 16, 2009
saintrage said:
Incivility is nothing new. It is just getting more attention in the youtube age. When entertainers are guilty, is is sad but expected. When it happens in the halls of Congress, it is inexcusable. Our country has had 43 presidents before President Obama. None of them were without detracters, yet there was expected decorum during a presidential address. I don't think that everyone who disagrees with President Obama is a racist, but I do believe that if it had been white man (like the 43 preceding presidents whose addresses to congress went without interruption) addressing congress as the president that night, Joe Wilson would have been silent.
Posted: September 17, 2009
Mike Little said:
I tend to agree with a lot of the commenters on this topic. I really don't think it is anything "new". I do think it is much more noticable though. We live in a world where the news cycle is down to about an hour and approaching a minute. Not only do we have instantaneous news, we now how the cliff-notes "summarized" versions of the high points of that news via blogs, twitter, etc.
Serena was just having a really bad day. Most of us have never had to live under the lights like she has, and I have never seen her do that before. Kenye, however, has showed a certain affinity for controversy based attention. After the MTV Music awards, he officially went in my loon basket.
The shout from the floor was uncalled for. However, a censure for it was not necessary either. My goodness, I've had to live through 16 years of one side or the other using the L word on the sitting president. I don't recall it happening from the floor with Bush, but he sure was heckled. And when the mics were on, the L word was there quite frequently - as were many other terms.
We need Civil Discourse. I'm just trying to remember a time when it existed in America. Has it ever been a part of our passionate DNA as a country? Oh, and what is "civil". Sticks and stones break the bones, words... well... shout 'em or whisper them ... they don't bring bodily harm.
Posted: September 17, 2009
Mike Little said:
Oh... and I had to say this.
Why would Kenye care about Beyonce getting a "video" award from MTV. MTV hasn't been in the video business since the early/mid 90s. Last I looked, most of their programming was reality crud like "pimp your toilet seat" and "the real world - not." :)
Quiz question - What was the FIRST video played on MTV and when??
Posted: September 17, 2009
Jonathan Merritt said:
Lots of good comments. I am not sure that I agree with the sentiment that we've "always" had a lack of civility in our culture. Starting with Nixon, America began to view the office of the President differently. Respect for the office definitely declined. The polarization of the political arena over the last couple of decades only highlights this.
As for Kanye, can anyone honestly picture Frank Sinatra grabbing a microphone from Ella Fitzgerald and saying something similar? Really?
It may not be as recent as 2009, but there has at least been a quickening of this trend in the last decade or so. (Of course, that's just my opinion.)
Blake: good thoughts. I'll have to digest that for sure.
Justin: The picture of duels in the nineteenth century is a picture of two individuals settling disputes in an orderly way. Although today, we'd see 10 paces and two bullets as barbaric, it actually contrasts the free-whelling, anything goes coarseness of the 21st century. Disagree? MacEnroe was a good point. Hmm...
Saintrage: Good points, although I am not sure there is any racial motivations behind the Obama backlash. I think it has been fueled both by conservative special interests and well-meaning heartland Americans. Oh, and the talkmasters have definitely influenced the current climate.
Jm
Posted: September 17, 2009
Bill Beahan said:
Several points:
1. Political discourse in the 1700s & 1800s was much much rougher than it is currently.
2. Joe Wilson was vindicated when a week later the Democrats added citienship verification to the Obamacare bill. The Bible commands us to oppose evil.
3. The town hall meetings are lively because the people hve woken up, actully read the Obamacare bill, found out the Congressmen supporting the bill and Mr. Obama are lieing about the bill. They try to point that out politely but attempts are being made through stunts like packing the meetings with union thugs that try to shout down the opponents and people have to raise their voices to be heard. My best friend went to the David Scott town hall here in the Atlanta area and saw the 5 busloads of union thugs arrive and get preferentil seating nd saw how the people reacted to Scott's dishonesty in attempting to defend this bill.
4. When I was a kid in the 60 I remember talking to neighbor who was in the Army in WWII whose unit liberated a Concentration Camp in Germany. He wondered how the German people could have allowed that to happen. Maybe they were just too civil.
Travis: I repect your right to disapprove of those who go to Tea Partis to exercise their right to protest unconstitutional actions by the federal government but using the disgusting label you used for these folks is reprehensible.
saintrage: I strongly disagree with your comment that Congressman Wilson shouted out what he did because the President is black. Having taken the time to actually read and listen to Wilson's statements afterwards, (and learning that he is a Congressman rather than a Senator), I believe he would not have done what he did if 1) Mr. Obama had not told an out and out lie while he claimed his opposition lied and 2) if Mr. Obama were not a Marxist in the Hugo Chavez mold.
Posted: September 19, 2009
Jonathan Merritt said:
Bill,
I won't address all of your points about health care. This post did not address healthcare, so I will let you duke it out with others who have commented on that.
I will say, however, that whether or not the "Bible commands us to oppose evil" is not what we were discussing. It was the best way to oppose those things that we don't like/agree with/perceive to be evil.
When we are faced with things we don't like, don't you think it is best to debate with courtesy, respect, and a level head?
Jm
Posted: September 19, 2009
Mike Little said:
Jonathan,
I'm not arguing at all that civility isn't needed in our country -- or world. I'm not even arguing that there may have been periods in our countries history where civility seemed, well, more civil.
I seem to recall taking a course in school called "civil discourse".
My only point is that If you look at the total history of our country, civility hasn't gotten worse. JFK assassinated, Reagan shot, and not to mention the rampant racism that did exist.
At least today, we can have a discussion about "pulling out the race card."
You couldn't imagine Kenye grabbing a mic. I remember as a little kid watching Madonna writhe around on stage to "Like a Virgin" and those Pepsi commercials aimed squarely at Catholicism. No one saw that coming. (I must confess that I do like a number of the Madge numbers - Don't Tell Me is a great tune, and Kenye has a few good numbers as well.)
People have used and played the system for as long as our country as been around. We inherited a ton of our systems from England. I crack up watching the civil discourse in their parliament.
The big question is... with me being a 30something and you being a 20something, what can we do to bring about this change? I'm not sure our conversation here is going to raise any eyebrows.
I'm rambling... which is definitely NOT civil ... but I didn't want you to think I disagreed with the need. I just don't see proof of the "increase".
Peace and chat...
Mike :)
Posted: September 20, 2009
Jonathan Merritt said:
Mike-
We have different definitions of (in)civility. JFK and Reagan are violence, Madonna is sexuality, Pepsi is satire. Civility as I define it would be what is increasingly absent in our society according to Os Guiness, Peggy Noonan, Mark Demoss, and Lynne Truss.
Either way, I agree with you on one thing: we should work to curb it.
Jm
Posted: September 20, 2009
Bill Beahan said:
I found this an interesting take on a worthwhile subject:
From "The Truth That Tells a Lie"
By Alex Castellanos
A few moments before Congressman Wilson lost his cool, President Obama said, “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”
Whether the president’s charge is true is a separate but important issue we will take up in a moment. First is the issue of fairness. Is it inappropriate for all of our political leaders to call members of the opposing party liars on the floor of the House of Representatives? Or is there a separate standard for President Obama and the members of his party? Joe Wilson’s remark was unplanned. Our president came to Congress pleading for bipartisanship but intending to demean his opponents with the same expression. What standard are we to observe?
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=Z
Posted: September 21, 2009
Mike Little said:
Jonathan,
Could you show me where or tell what that definition is? Madonna was sexual... but it was her form of discourse. Still is. I'm not sure I'd take violence out of the picture either.
I think you and I are referring to the same thing... a respect for anothers opinion, even if different -- and how that respect plays out in our interactions socially.
I don't know if I'd use Nixon as the dividing line. I think if you go back you can find several places where things have taken a rapid downturn in our country -- or even the worlds storied past.
Honestly, I have been racking my brain about how you actually do this. Republicans are so afraid to admit they might agree with a Democrat and vice versa (also applies denominationally) it makes it very hard.
Maybe that is what you are talking about? Gotta run. Fun chatting.
Posted: September 25, 2009